tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post979805706362704238..comments2023-09-05T04:45:06.546-07:00Comments on Talespinning: Whose head am I in?Tricia J. O'Brienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05993110400088806252noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-9126431379313587252009-09-17T20:46:57.419-07:002009-09-17T20:46:57.419-07:00Elana: Good to hear your opinion on this. I think ...Elana: Good to hear your opinion on this. I think I mostly prefer single POV or, at most, two people's. Any more than that is dang crowded.Tricia J. O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993110400088806252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-60247085807647665032009-09-17T16:41:43.479-07:002009-09-17T16:41:43.479-07:00I don't like POV stuff. I don't even reall...I don't like POV stuff. I don't even really like books that have alternating characters narrating in the same chapter. Chapter by chapter I can handle. Other than that, I'm not a fan.Elana Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05877856005992028912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-56784751003222096112009-09-17T13:32:16.604-07:002009-09-17T13:32:16.604-07:00Linda: Hi and welcome! I think you are so right ab...Linda: Hi and welcome! I think you are so right about distinctive voices. If the characters have unusual speech patterns or attitudes that stick out, you can bring the reader right along with the switch. But even then I think there has to be a compelling reason to make a head-hop, something you've got to show right now and that somehow connects to the main storyline.<br /><br />Robyn: Seeing red together ;) Glad you liked my rant. Cheers!Tricia J. O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993110400088806252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-10290481582103347622009-09-17T11:30:47.253-07:002009-09-17T11:30:47.253-07:00Tricia, the book I'm reading right now did tha...Tricia, the book I'm reading right now did that. Changed right smack dab in the middle of the dang chapter. It made me so derned mad! It's a really great read, except for that. And it has done that earlier too. <br /><br />I had to reread it, because I thought I had missed something. And like my pal^ above me said, It's extremely difficult to be that good. <br /><br />Nice post, my friend. Nice post. :)Robyn Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17356555082768185840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-16178312828624000872009-09-17T06:43:28.474-07:002009-09-17T06:43:28.474-07:00I think you have to be a REALLY talented author to...I think you have to be a REALLY talented author to successfully pull off head hopping. If each of a writer's characters has such a distinctive voice that the reader doesn't even realize they've just wandered through ten minds in two paragraphs because it flows that real, then bingo, who cares how many heads we're in? If I'm sucked that deeply into a story, I'll keep going back to that author no matter how may POVs they shoot me.<br /><br />BUT.... if a reader constantly gets confused? Who's thinking that? Who's mind are we in now? What's going on? Aggg, I'm so Lost!! Then, okay, I'd recommend they stick with one POV at a time. And since other writers can so easily pick up these changes, I feel it's extremely difficult to be good enough to pull off head-hopping.<br /><br />My, myself, and I? I know I ain't got those kind of skillz. So, these days I stick with one head at a time when I write.Linda Kagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00259042112816376940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-14773260893465557922009-09-16T22:37:06.445-07:002009-09-16T22:37:06.445-07:00Mel: I guess this is where we hope our crit buddie...Mel: I guess this is where we hope our crit buddies, beta readers or editors will flag any areas of muddle. So far, most of my work has been in first or limited third so that I have avoided the issue.<br /><br />Shelley: First draft seems like you just cut loose and see what it wants to do, but, yeah, on rewrite your hands will be full! Yikes, I hope my big mouth use of "lazy" doesn't make anybody feel that way. I oughta get off the soapbox. I'm sure you'll finish it if your characters are that anxious to be speaking.Tricia J. O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993110400088806252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-13008155183220247502009-09-16T21:33:42.283-07:002009-09-16T21:33:42.283-07:00I am really struggling with this right now in a WI...I am really struggling with this right now in a WIP. It's a YA, omniscient 3rd.....and the story just wants to jump around people's heads a bit. I think I am too lazy/inexperienced to mess with it too much just yet, because I'm just trying to get it out onto paper! I'm afraid if I try to control the story too much, I'll never finish.....soooooooooo. Um. Yeah. I'll probably have a heckuva lot of fun in the rewrite!!!<br /><br />I'll keep you posted on the misery.....if I ever finish it!<br /><br />Shelleystoryqueenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07039684494823420722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-52789040131613106432009-09-16T18:28:20.366-07:002009-09-16T18:28:20.366-07:00As in so much else with writing style, I think it ...As in so much else with writing style, I think it depends on the execution. I read BENEDICT SOCIETY and agree that the POV switching wasn't (usually) distracting. But I have read books where it's terribly annoying because it muddles rather than adds.MG Higginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03584010470283038023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-3125365639356437792009-09-16T17:51:20.613-07:002009-09-16T17:51:20.613-07:00Yat-Yee: I'm willing to give your suggested bo...Yat-Yee: I'm willing to give your suggested books a try, as I haven't read them. You are absolutely right about the 'huh' tolerance, and that's why I've had debates with other writers. Some people are not bothered by it. For me, it's an issue.<br /><br />Tabitha: I think you are right to be mindful when writing the POV changes, because it can be done if it's smooth and doesn't bounce the reader out of the vehicle. *smilin' back*Tricia J. O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993110400088806252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-10582250314012721892009-09-16T14:22:51.989-07:002009-09-16T14:22:51.989-07:00POV's are tricky. I have two in the current bo...POV's are tricky. I have two in the current book I am working on and I am always mindful of changing too quickly or of losing my reader. good points though. :)Tabitha Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08196816108272065974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-18442931386302388812009-09-16T13:30:38.349-07:002009-09-16T13:30:38.349-07:00When I vented about this in a post recently about ...When I vented about this in a post recently about head hopping, http://yatyeechong.blogspot.com/2009/07/from-where-i-stand-or-head-hopping.html<br /><br />several comments were on the changing POV with alternating chapters. I think that can work very well. I will go so far as to say it can work well even within chapters or scenes (gasps!) Two examples of the POV changes that work very well in this way are COST by Roxana Robinson and CHASING VERMEER. CALDER GAME, on the other hand, worked less well. <br /><br />Different people have different levels of "huh" tolerance--some of this writing has passed the muster of the agent/editor/publisher--but as a writer, I hope I don't make even one single reader go "huh".Yat-Yeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04028075516122778317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-6734010463125668072009-09-16T12:57:22.098-07:002009-09-16T12:57:22.098-07:00Michelle: I should have said earlier in the post t...Michelle: I should have said earlier in the post that I wasn't talking about all POV, I guess. Sorry I got your pulse rate up.<br />I think you are right about omniscient storytelling; it takes a deft hand to do it well. We should not be left wondering where we are but feel it flow smoothly one to another.Tricia J. O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993110400088806252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-86493587147575136352009-09-16T12:36:53.396-07:002009-09-16T12:36:53.396-07:00This is such an interesting post! I was going to g...This is such an interesting post! I was going to get really upset with you until you said you didn't mean switching POV as separate chapters, because all three novels I've written do that, and I think it works. My first novel, however, I'm changing to just one POV.<br /><br />I think it's a sign of misunderstanding omniscient storytelling. It's one of the most difficult ways to tell a story, I think, and if not done well, ends up like the book you mention in your post. It doesn't work.Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-47987821415754276462009-09-16T08:53:09.266-07:002009-09-16T08:53:09.266-07:00Natalie: I haven't read The English Passengers...Natalie: I haven't read The English Passengers. I'll check that out. Yes, frustrating, is a good word for it.<br /><br />Lisa: I like "rhythm and reason for the change." I think that probably is key to making it work.<br /><br />MeganRebekah: That is the main reason I find it annoying--to have to stop and go back.Tricia J. O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993110400088806252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-70479531558236120172009-09-16T08:25:56.841-07:002009-09-16T08:25:56.841-07:00I *hate* this too. To me, one of the worst offendi...I *hate* this too. To me, one of the worst offending genres is romance. So often the POV switches within the same chapter, without even a line break and it disrupts my flow, and forces me to go back and figure out who just said/thought that.MeganRebekahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285116194891827858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-8351575529663296692009-09-16T08:24:53.267-07:002009-09-16T08:24:53.267-07:00I get your point. I don't mind switching POVs ...I get your point. I don't mind switching POVs as long as it's still a LIMITED POV. <br /><br />So I know that I'm now following Buck instead of Luke (even if both characters are in the scene). And we follow Luke and Buck throughout the whole story. It's not random. There's rhythm and reason for the change. <br /><br />If it's going to be an omniscient POV, then it needs to be that way through the entire thing.Lisa Aldinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05423334732254639943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-55004256348549418592009-09-16T08:10:26.215-07:002009-09-16T08:10:26.215-07:00PJ: I believe it's intentional, because it hap...PJ: I believe it's intentional, because it happens at other places in the book. For instance, the two main characters meet and within paragraphs each is seeing the other, describing the other. I didn't care for that but it didn't bug me as much as the minor character telling me what he was seeing and thinking. I guess my biggest complaint is that I don't see the need for this. In the instance above, we could have been in one character's viewpoint and she could have noted that she was in jeans while the other was in khakis, or whatever. <br />I've been interested in the Mysterious Benedict Society, so I will check it out to see how I feel about it. I know some people think it's a new, more cinematic, way of writing. I, unfortunately, feel myself pulled out of story, and there is nothing I like so much as being carried away in a story.Tricia J. O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993110400088806252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-83027397210389302522009-09-16T08:05:10.238-07:002009-09-16T08:05:10.238-07:00There are a couple of books that I love that chang...There are a couple of books that I love that change POV with the chapters (THE ENGLISH PASSENGERS is the one that comes to mind), but even that has to be done well to work.<br /><br />I think you are completely right about jumping into other characters heads mid-chapter. It's confusing and it makes for a frustrating reading experience.Nataliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00861022355718378425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5777245334432005091.post-24124602038732249392009-09-16T07:53:00.519-07:002009-09-16T07:53:00.519-07:00I'm just trying to find your currently reading...I'm just trying to find your currently reading list so I know what book it was.<br />My question is this: was it an intentional POV change or do you think the author slipped? <br /><br />I'm deadly aware of POV changes and notice them everywhere. I'm reading THE MYSTERIOUS BENEDICT SOCIETY right now which totally has various POVs in the same chapter, but I do believe the author did it intentionally, and since it centers around four kids, it works fine for me. I notice it, but I don't think it distracts.<br />This is not the case at all for other books.PJ Hooverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02602205868934777662noreply@blogger.com